The price of the bullet
There is this notion in the “western world” that in China, when someone is sentenced to death the bullet’s price is charged to that person’s family.
This idea has been spread by several movies and I am not sure how much of it is true and how much is just urban myth.
One thing I am sure is not an urban myth is the fact that the EU has placed conditions to keep its economical support to the Palestinian Authority, quite fairly in my opinion.
As soon as that was expressed news arrived that the Hamas’ leaders argued help should be given without any conditions or restraints.
And now all this fuss about the cartoons in Norway and Denmark with gunmen taking over the EU office in Gaza.
Well, am I the only one who sees a parallel here? Am I the only one who believes we are paying the bullet that will kill us?
International help is in fact important, but giving financial help without control to a nation ruled by terrorists is not the way I want my taxes spent, that is not the way I want the EU resources spent.
Yesterday four more bombs exploded in London, tomorrow more bombs may explode somewhere in Europe. Are we going to pay for those?
This idea has been spread by several movies and I am not sure how much of it is true and how much is just urban myth.
One thing I am sure is not an urban myth is the fact that the EU has placed conditions to keep its economical support to the Palestinian Authority, quite fairly in my opinion.
As soon as that was expressed news arrived that the Hamas’ leaders argued help should be given without any conditions or restraints.
And now all this fuss about the cartoons in Norway and Denmark with gunmen taking over the EU office in Gaza.
Well, am I the only one who sees a parallel here? Am I the only one who believes we are paying the bullet that will kill us?
International help is in fact important, but giving financial help without control to a nation ruled by terrorists is not the way I want my taxes spent, that is not the way I want the EU resources spent.
Yesterday four more bombs exploded in London, tomorrow more bombs may explode somewhere in Europe. Are we going to pay for those?
posted by DCveR at 7:43 AM
17 Comments:
Disagree on that one, I see the paralel, but both parts in this conflict claim to defend themselves. If you are to support democracy, you'llhave to respect the palestinian election, no matter how bad the winner is.
Hamas has drawn back some of their claims, they are now willing to negotiate with Israel, and has change the claim for the palestinian borders to involve Gaza, West-bank, and east-jerusalem, not to wipe Israel off the map. What they have denied is to put down their arms as they claim their right to defend themselves against an illegal occupation...
The reason why hamas won the election, is mainly because the palestinian people are fed up with corruption inside the palestinian authorities, and here hamas plays an alternative and a double role. Hamas have been running hospitals and schools in the occupied territories, here fatah have failed, gaining the confidence of the people. People have seen the wealth of central fatah-memeber and the contrast of their own lives and their leaders. At the same time Hamas have used suicide bombers inside Israelian borders, and assaults by rockets or gunmen from palestinian territories on Israelian targets, wich have made them a name on eu's and us' lists of terror-organisations. In palestinian eyes this is merely small answers to assasintions and attacks from Israel, again hamas proves to stand up, where fatah fails...
I'm not in support of the Hamas tactics and believes, but it would be really dangerous to undermine the palestinian elections with economical punishments on an already poor population. That would only be doing the so-called terrorists a major favour...
The word 'bullet' drives fear into me right now.
Someone in guyana [not a very popular man, by the way because of his association with violence] was gunned down last night not far from here.
In Guyana we say 'so you live, so you dead [die].'
angry-
"illegal occupation" by what standards? thats where they disagree... hamas believes the entire land of israel is illegal occupation
Yeah, I know there is a dispute on that one, ale, but when hamas went to the election they went under the flag for change and reform. In january they claimed that their goal was not to wipe out Israel, but to build a palestinian state, consisting of gaza, west-bank and east-jerusalem(wich are/were illegally occupied according to the UN). Under this flag they've gained trust in the palestinian population, and won the election. I'm not very in favour of hamas nor fatah, but as this is supposed to be democratic elections in a growing democracy, the people should have their say...
But the EU isn't cutting the support to the palestinian authority because hamas won, the EU is only willing to hold the aid IF and only if the hamas fail to respect the agreements that led to this aid and the peace negotiations. This seems fair to me, it seems like "EU will keep its part of the deal if you keep your part of the deal".
Yeah, but the weird thing is that EU still granted aid to Fathas corrupt regime, decpite the fact that the al-aqsa brigades(armed part of fatha) continued attacks on Israel targets. Why is this different now? And there is no deal between hamas and EU in the first place, it's a demand from eu to put down weapons, and not an offer to negotiation. Hamas version of the story makes it impossible for them to disarm, and Israels version makes it impossible to even talk with hamas. I dont think EU is helping either part by taking away aidmoney or any help for the palestinian people. It'll only put more fuel on the fire, and I fear the two parts will slide even more adrift...
Well put, DCVer. We never learn.
I agree with 'I'm so angry...' the Palestinians voted for Hamas out of disgust at the corruption of Fatah but also because they seem to be the only ones fighting Israel's terrorist govt. The plight of the Palestinians is pitiful, they are kept in dreadful bondage by Israel, their situation no better than the Bantustans in South Africa that we all used to be so angry about. I don't believe in a two state solution, I believe in a single state solution where Jewish people and Palestinians can live together in peace, as was mainly the case prior to 1948.
The Israeli army is the fourth largest in the world, the Palestians have a few guns, I'm not even sure they PL Authority owns a helicopter yet the Israeli Air Force has F16s, the army has tanks and misiles. This vote therefore is hardly a threat to Israel.
However we see everyday the contempt with which Palestians are held by Israel. Only on Sunday the Israeli army shot dead a nine year old girl who strayed too near a security wall. 9 years of age! A little girl, a child! Racism has rotted the heart of the Israeli State (if it ever had a heart) so now its soldiers no longer see Palestinian children they see vermin (which I think is a word often used by Likud politicians to describe their fellow human beings). It is Palestinian anger that brought out the vote for Hamas. Condoleeza Rice has said she was surprised and asks how the State Dept didn't see it coming, I can answer that, they didn't see it coming because they didn't look properly. The US Govt is equal to Israel in the contempt it holds for Palestinians. And this thing about democracy, well, I think this vote exposes an hypocrisy, ie the US, the EU, Israel only agree with democracy for Palesinians if they vote as the US, EU and Israel wishes. democracy if it gives the results they want. What this shows is the US, EU and Israel don't want a true democracy for the Palestinians. By arguing against the outcome they drive in further the nail of contempt that is held in the Palestinian collective side. The facts are the Palestinians have voted and Hamas have a popular mandate. Of Kennedy's assasination Malcolm X said 'The chicken's have come home to roost.' I think the same can be said of Hamas's victory.
Dan: Europe can never claim innocence over this issue, Europe 'made' Israel. And I could even go as far as to agree Israel is as much to be blamed as the Palestinians. But Israel doesn't bomb innocents in Europe. And whenever a suicide bomber strikes in Israel children are killed too, 9 year old children die in every war. Specially in wars where many of the fighters are nothing but children too. This Summer we have all seen efforts made by Europe to use diplomacy with Iran, we also saw how the Iranian delegates acted in Belgium. Now we watch gunmen attacking the EU office because people in Norway and Denmark don't obey their religious restrictions regarding portraying God or Mahomet. These acts are full of contempt towards the EU, yet Europe is helping them. Shouldn't that help be given while making sure it won't be converted in means to attack us or to attack other innocents? Don't misunderstand my position regarding Israel though, I think sanctions should be applied to Israel until they respect a real truce too.
DC, the age-long problem will remain as long as Israel is allowed to get away with systematic ignorance of international laws.
I may come across as being biased but I can assure you that I have nothing against Israelis or Jews. I had great Jewish teachers back in Algeria.
People can learn to live peacefully together. But one has to be fair. Who are the oppressed in the Middle East?
I am certain that Israel relishes the fact that a handful of extremists create this tension all over the world. This leads to the justification of the Wall, destruction of Jenin, Chatila and Sabrah refugee camps, etc...
It is a bad situation and I really wonder if the problem will ever be resolved.
hell, the US has been paying to "equip" terrorists since the 60s and probably before that.
Just a note as I'm a norwegian these days; The paper "magazinet" made a copy of some cartoons from a danish newspaper, the provokation was at some stake on the behalf of some openminded journalist in denmark, non-religious, but conservative as far as I know. The real issue sprung out when this norwegian "paper" re-printed the cartoons as means to provoke(the editor stated this himself), now the issue is that these fundamentalists wanted a reaction, wich got way above their heads... The "paper" "magazinet" is a near to fascist christian fundamentalist paper wich have only likeminded readers in norway, they have been pro-israel on even killings of kids from the start and should be seen as hatepropaganda the same way we see neo-nazis; it's not a thingey you buy in stores! And it's not a paper that ordinary people read in norway; it's a small fucked up paper for people who acctually believe that they are among the chosen to go to heaven, and that if people go to hell, they deserve it... It's really sad hat they made such a huge statement, and managed to go that far on their hate-policy!
I'm sorry dcver, but one of the most famous murder cases in norwegian history proved to be on mossads hands. Mossad assaulted and killed two palestinians on norwegian territory, both granted norwegian citizenship. That is an assault on another european country... Israel has, as dan said, the fourth biggest army in the world; to defend the size of the smallest county in norway... It does not make scence. It is totally up to the us, european union, and israel to flag their intensions, and try to act as real democracies, in a democratic world; wich they all three seems to have huge problems with...
isa, isae: So we all agree those right wing guys are not representative of the Danes or the Norse, right? They are even less representative of the entire EU population. So why did those Hamas guys storm the EU office in Gaza? It makes no sense to me. As for provocative cartoons, most of the polytical or religious cartoons are provocative and you don't usually see an entire country going nuts due to a cartoon of the pope with little boys under his vests. I remember some Mossad hits, now that you mention it, and also in Germany and South America, but those were hits on selected targets, bad as it is doesn't quite match a bombing. OH, and thanks for the explanation on the "magazinet", the news I'd read weren't that complete.
cream: That is why I say sanctions should be applied to Israel until they starting respecting the non-Jewish nations.
bees knees: European and American influence in the Middle East has always be disastrous.
isis: Everything is fine, thanks Isis.
The cartoons are an act of an irresponsible person. He knows what the situation is, and yet he goes stoking fire.
Here in Guyana, for the sake of peace, one group does NOT go around riling the other group that is very easily angry.
We can say we need to, for the sake of 'freedom of speech.' [I'm talking about a tense political situation here]...but we don't.
Within freedom there must be responsibility.
I'm defending no one. I am just saying that in these times, ADULTS in the media need to start thinking.
GG: The media are very seldom responsible, and according to isa, isae it was not even mainstream media, it was just a small print radical release.
You are right, there just be responsability and those who publish should be held accountable, but the workers at the EU office are not to be blamed, nor is most of EU population.
You ask for common sense on a subject that all parts see their view as the only common sense possible.
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